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2017 V7...What is a good price? (Read 1652 times)
06/03/19 at 22:40:34

MCG9850   Offline
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Might be willing to let my V7 go up for sale. What is a good asking price?

Bought it new but haven't paddled it for close to 2 years now.

Condition is good. Been in a few weekly races and 1 shoot out race on the MO river.

Thoughts...let me know. Still want to get back into the local race scene at some point but other activities are taking up my "other" time.
 
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Reply #1 - 06/04/19 at 00:10:51

kayakbrian   Offline
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Waveski US Titles 1993,
2nd place, Masters Div
Hutchinson, KS

Posts: 83
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Is it a G2 or a G3 model?
 
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Reply #2 - 06/04/19 at 08:03:49

Jaybee   Offline
3X MR340 Veteran
Knoxville, TN

Posts: 410
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MSRP new was just under $1,500.  I've seen brand new V7's sell for $1,300 - $1,350.  "New" demo V7's go for around $1,000 from dealers trying to clear out their inventory or not get stuck with a previous model year.

If it's in decent condition, pricing it at anything near or under $1,000 should see it sell fairly quickly.  Obviously, older models or those with lots of scratches go for less, good condition boats for more.  Most expect a rotomolded boat to collect its fair share of scratches over normal use so unless there is damage or serious oilcanning, something close to $1,000 is pretty normal.
 

Jim
Boat # 3489
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Reply #3 - 06/04/19 at 11:46:00

kayakbrian   Offline
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Waveski US Titles 1993,
2nd place, Masters Div
Hutchinson, KS

Posts: 83
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I just paid $1175 for a 1 year old G3 model with both rudders.  I consider that a fair price for a G3 in good condition.  I can't speak for Jaybee's prices around Knoxville, TN, but from what I've seen over the last few years around the KC area and on Rivermiles, $800-$1000 buys a G1, depending on condition.  A G2 sold on Rivermiles for $1200 a few months ago.  They rarely come up for sale on Rivermiles and CL.
 
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Reply #4 - 06/04/19 at 16:41:40

Jaybee   Offline
3X MR340 Veteran
Knoxville, TN

Posts: 410
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I don't think that region makes too much difference as many of us buy boats long distance and make the pickup at races that we were going to travel to anyway.  I've got two G1's that I've had for 1-2 years and paid $700 & $900 for.  One was in Missouri and one was on the East coast.  A couple of friends here in Knoxville each paid just under $1,000 for almost new G3's - one a demo and one barely used.  That last one was basically a deal as the first owner just could not get used to a surfski over a kayak and wanted to sell fast.

The only consistent thing I've seen is when somebody is trying to sell a used V7 in the $1,300 range.  Those seem to stay for sale for a while.  Once the price gets anywhere near $1,000 they sell pretty fast.
 

Jim
Boat # 3489
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Reply #5 - 06/04/19 at 20:14:49

MCG9850   Offline
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Not Sure what Gen it is? I had the rear rudder added.
 

Car__2_.JPG (303 KB | 96 )
Car__2_.JPG
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Reply #6 - 06/05/19 at 07:40:29

Jaybee   Offline
3X MR340 Veteran
Knoxville, TN

Posts: 410
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That's a Gen I or Gen II
 

Jim
Boat # 3489
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Reply #7 - 06/05/19 at 23:05:46

kayakbrian   Offline
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Waveski US Titles 1993,
2nd place, Masters Div
Hutchinson, KS

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Jaybee, Where did you see those V7's advertised?  Were they advertised in online publications or were they sold by word of mouth?  I've only seen one G3 advertised on Rivermiles and the MR340 page in the last year and it was actually a G2.  The seller was under the mistaken belief that there were 5 generations of the V7. 
 
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Reply #8 - 06/05/19 at 23:14:41

kayakbrian   Offline
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Waveski US Titles 1993,
2nd place, Masters Div
Hutchinson, KS

Posts: 83
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MCG9850, I've been doing some research to clarify what the differences are between the different generations of the V7.  Here are my notes:

G1 mfg 2015 So Africa, smooth outer layer & lumpy foaming agent core, plastic cockpit handles, orange bow/stern tips

G2 mfg 2015-16 no orange tips, black or red logo on bow, smooth outer layer & lumpy foaming agent core, 2 part hatch covers w/ strap
sample ID#: GIPZF936G616  D EKI2014 (G616=7/6/16 mfg date) (EK12014=2014 mold)

G3 2017-18 mfg in China; single layer polyethylene with smooth interior; stiffer lengthwise, stronger, adds 2-3#, 1 rubber hatch cover snaps on, black rear hatch combing screwed to deck, rudder lines pass thru 3 black fittings at stern, uphaul cleat behind seat
sample ID#: GIPF0345C818  D EKI12016 (mfg 3/8/18; 2016 mold)
Available beginning August 2017?

G4 2018-19 speckled, granite color; single layer polyethylene with smooth interior, non porous/slick finish=easier to clean; carbon cockpit handles; kickup & uphaul rudders available; uphaul line in tube under deck with cleat behind seat on back deck
(I've been told the G3 & G4 are the same except for the granite color and slick finish of the G4.)
Available beginning August 2018
 
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Reply #9 - 06/05/19 at 23:33:45

kayakbrian   Offline
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Waveski US Titles 1993,
2nd place, Masters Div
Hutchinson, KS

Posts: 83
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Here's a photo of the hatch combing on a G3 V7:
 

V7_G3_hatch_combing.jpg (1293 KB | 63 )
V7_G3_hatch_combing.jpg
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Reply #10 - 06/05/19 at 23:40:51

Jaybee   Offline
3X MR340 Veteran
Knoxville, TN

Posts: 410
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Let's see:

We got our first V7 from John at Some Beach.  It was advertised either here on Rivermiles or on the MR340 FB page, possibly both.  Picked it up at the 2017 Freedom Race so that's the timeframe.

Second V7 was from a private seller and 340 veteran.  It was either on the MR340 FB page or on a FB page that linked to it.

Of the other two I mentioned, the demo model came from Southern Paddlesports in Kentucky.  The other was purchased new at Southern Paddlesports  but was then resold by the original owner a few months later.  That was in  a town near Knoxville TN.  This last one was listed in the Knoxville CraigsList.

There are a lot more surfski and performance boats up for sale in the KC area compared to what we have around here so those of us looking for boats will search around a few hundred miles or more.
 

Jim
Boat # 3489
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Reply #11 - 06/06/19 at 00:09:44

kayakbrian   Offline
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2nd place, Masters Div
Hutchinson, KS

Posts: 83
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Jaybee,  Like I said, I've only seen one G3 listed on Rivermiles and the MR340 page in the last year and it was actually a G2.

I don't see any contradictions in what we're saying.  Within the last year or so you paid $900 for a G1. The G3's that sold for just under $1000 sold fast.  I know of a G3 in Florida that sold for $950.  That is so far under fair market value that I was tempted to drive the 1500 miles to get.  Might have been a fun road trip but the additional cost would've made it more expensive than a new one. 

As with all kinds of used products, occasionally something is priced really low and it usually gets snapped up quickly.  Nonetheless, the lowest price a boat, car or house sells for does not establish the fair market price.  And, yes, things sold at fair market value usually take longer to sell.

Ultimately, it depends on supply and demand.  If there are a lot of people chomping at the bit, wanting a used  G3 V7, it shouldn't take long to sell one for $1150-$1200, depending on what comes with it.  As I recall, somebody had a G1 advertised on Rivermiles for $1100 or $1200 a few months ago this year and it sold within a couple of weeks.   I'd call that as far at the high end of the range for a G1 as under $1000 is at the low end of the range for a G3.


 
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Reply #12 - 06/06/19 at 00:30:34

WIpdlr   Offline
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Irma, WI

Posts: 85
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Kayakbrian, awesome job except for a few details. 

His boat is a G1. The G1’s with orange tips are the lightest of all the models ever made by 2-3 pounds
and are a tad less stiff then a the G2 and 3. They had only the one neoprene hatch cover with no plastic over cover, the G2 added the plastic over cover with the same neoprene cover underneath.  The G1’s are the only model that came with a carbon universal understern rudder, all the ones since have plastic understern rudders. They don’t have a third hole for an uphaul line like the Gen 3. They DO have carbon carrying handles, G3 and 4 have plastic handles and after people said they prefer carbon back to carbon for G4.

The G3 and 4 being a different plastic with no foam inner layer are less stiff if you push on them but are more stiff longitudinally for better power transfer., the outer surface is also easier to keep clean  They all have the same carbon footplate, also they are all made out of the same mold from what Epic tells me contrary to some rumors.

I hope this helps, I think I got most of that right 😁.

Jeff Schnelle
Paddle Dynamics
https://www.paddledynamics.com/default.asp
 
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Reply #13 - 06/06/19 at 03:03:07

kayakbrian   Offline
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2nd place, Masters Div
Hutchinson, KS

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Thanks, Jeff.  Maybe you can help me with some puzzling details.  I've talked to some V7 owners, Epic dealers and to the people at the Epic company, trying to get all this straight but the info has been piecemeal.

As I understand it, the last set of numbers in the ID# is the mold #.  Since the mold #'s are different, it would seem that the molds are different.  I have heard that making a mold for rotomolding a kayak costs tens of thousands of dollars.  I think someone long ago said that the mold for OK Scuppers cost around $50,000 and that was in the late 1980's.  It would make economic sense for Epic to use the same mold for each generation of V7.  On the other hand, from the limited mold #'s in my "data base" it looks like the mold # changed between the G2 and G3, when production moved from So Africa to China.  Any chance you could get a really clear answer on the mystery of the changing mold #?

Also, it was someone at Epic who told me that the G1's were mfg in 2015 but I have an ID# from a G2 that was mfg in January of 2015.  I saw photos of the boat and the ID# to verify it.  The ID# is GIPZF467A615  D EKI2014.  January 6, 2015 mfg according to the ID. I gather that they started production in January to build inventory for release later in the year.  So, from what date to what date were G1's mfg?  Can you give me a couple of ID#'s from the G1 and G4 models to add to my "data base"?  I don't have any ID#'s for those.

Also, do G3 and G4 V7's have the same slick, easier to clean surface or is the surface of the G4 less porous and easier to clean than the G3?

Additionally, from what you wrote, can I conclude that early G4's have plastic carry handles and later ones have cf carry handles?  You wrote "carry handles".  Did you mean  cockpit handles or bow and stern carrying handles?

Thanks, Jeff, for any info you can provide. 

-Brian
« Last Edit: 06/06/19 at 16:01:02 by kayakbrian »  
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Reply #14 - 06/06/19 at 18:55:01

Jaybee   Offline
3X MR340 Veteran
Knoxville, TN

Posts: 410
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My wife researched the hull numbers - looks like your boat is very close in age to ours. Our oldest one is:

GIPZF339D515 D EKI2014 which breaks down to this:

First 3 = Manufacturers ID code   (GIP = Epic)
Next 5 = Hull  Serial #                (ZF339)
Next 4 = Date of certification  (D = Nov. so it's 11/5/15)*
Last 7 = Mold and design year      (EKI2014)

*Not sure if the first 5 is actually the day or something else.

Not sure if that circled 'D' is  part of the mold style or what.

Other V7 is slightly newer:

GIPZF447E515 D EKI2014  Making this one newer by 108 boats.  The 'E' is supposed to be December, making the date of cert. 12/5/15.*  *Again, the same thing with the first # 5.

With yours being hull number ZF467, it should have been made 20 boats after our above boat.  The only confusing thing is the 'A' designation in your A615 number group.  Your hull number is after ours so it's a slightly newer boat but if our newest one was made in December '15 you'd think that yours would have to be made in either 12/15 or 1/16.  Wonder if yours was made at a different plant?
 

Jim
Boat # 3489
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Reply #15 - 06/06/19 at 23:16:41

kayakbrian   Offline
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2nd place, Masters Div
Hutchinson, KS

Posts: 83
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Jaybee,  I need to copy the ID# of both boats next to each other to follow your comparison.

G1 ID - GIPZF447E515  D EKI2014
G2 ID - GIPZF467A615  D EKI2014

Regarding the "date of certification", we aren't on the same page.  Regarding the first string of numbers (most boats don't have a mold # in the ID), a state park law officer explained the last letter plus 3-4 numbers, which he said is the date of manufacture, by saying that A=January, B=February, C=March, etc.  What/who is your source claiming that D=November and E=December?  We need to find common ground on that for a discussion to make sense. 

Also, I recall someone saying that the ID# on imported surfskis is added by Epic, Stellar, etc, after arrival in the USA.  I don't know if that's true but if it is, that would seem to make the numbers somewhat arbitrary compared to the ID actually documenting the date manufacture.  I've seen surfskis and OC-1's from some companies that have very unusual ID's or no ID at all so, clearly, not all companies comply with the standard USA method of boat identification.  Whatever method Epic is using, it would be good to verify exactly how their numbers should be interpreted.

If ZF467 means the G2 was the 20th boat made after the G1 how can the certification # or date of mfg # of the G2 be A, which is 4 months earlier than E?  Like you said, it doesn't make sense.

Here's an ID from an orange tip, G1 V7 listed on CL in CA):
G1 ID - GIPZF471E515  D EKI2014
On that one, the hull # and date of mfg/cert # both suggest that it was made after the G2.  Makes me think I should double check the G2 ID# I cited....  I just checked and the seller sent me photos of the boat, which had a white bow and stern, and of the ID# which I copied accurately.  So, how do we solve this puzzle?
 
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Reply #16 - 06/07/19 at 00:43:12

WIpdlr   Offline
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Irma, WI

Posts: 85
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Wow, you guys are way beyond my mental scope to delve into it this
much. Fun stuff to know but I don’t think this info effects price other
then knowing the generation it is which in reality only makes
a few hundred dollars difference for resale. Epic told me the current mold
in China was moved from SA, otherwise it is beyond me if there was a
second one.

I carry my Epic boats using the cockpit handles which is why I called them
Carrying handles so the cockpit handles are going back to carbon. The plastic
ones served their purpose albeit with a bit of flex.

Lots of detailed stuff in the post, nice job.


Happy and safe paddling to you.

Jeff Schnelle
Paddle Dynamics
https://www.paddledynamics.com/default.asp
 
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Reply #17 - 06/07/19 at 08:21:52

Jaybee   Offline
3X MR340 Veteran
Knoxville, TN

Posts: 410
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Brian - I think we are into an area of some conflicting information that we'll just have to accept that there is some nonconformity out there.  We were working with one source that put the Alpha month codes as starting with August - August = A, September = B etc.  However, there are other sources out there that start with January = A.  All part of that HIN ruling of the early 70's but there is mention of custom manufacturers numbers.

I did confirm that the first #5 in our third group of numbers is the last digit of the year.  Seems strange since that block also includes '15'.

But anyway, not sure with the available information if it is possible to definitively decode and compare all the HIN's

Both my V7's have HIN's that were hand scratched in after the hull was made.  This is unlike most boats I've seen where the HIN is embossed as a part of the mold. 

 

Jim
Boat # 3489
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Reply #18 - 06/07/19 at 14:17:22

kayakbrian   Offline
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Waveski US Titles 1993,
2nd place, Masters Div
Hutchinson, KS

Posts: 83
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Thanks for all that info regarding the different start dates for the alphabetical code for the month of mfg/certification.

If the ID is embossed, it's done at the time of mfg so you can be pretty sure it's the actual date of mfg.  Hand scratched ID's could be etched in at any time.  Ocean Kayak hand scratched the ID into the hull in their early days.  Not sure what they do now.

You're right, Jeff.  We can tell which generation the boats are without the ID# on Epic surfskis.  On some brands though, knowing the ID is knowing the age of a boat with a design that hasn't changed significantly in 20 years or more.  Once I got into deciphering the Epic ID's, it became a puzzle that I'd like to solve so it makes sense.

Sounds like the Epic company is the only definitive source for clarifying what the HID #'s mean on Epic boats.
 
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