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Rec boats and drift speeds - what is yours? (Read 2042 times)
06/11/12 at 07:42:22

Scott Reeves   Offline
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Springfield, MO

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In response to the other post about what people are paddling, I would love to gather some info to continue to build our race plan.

We are racing, but not competing for a title. Goal one to finish in time for the party. Goal two, have a ton of time in the bank in case something happens.

Anyway, we went out for a training run with Randall from Lexington to Miami Saturday.

Our boat, Old Town Penobscot17 rx, loaded with the amount of gear we would take if we had no ground crew for the race (which we do, so we will be cutting weight).

Drift speed 4.1 mph no wind
4.7-5.1 mph with wind at the back



Please post the drift speeds from your training runs as a response. It would definitely help those of us building a timeline for the race.

Scott Reeves
(future participant for the third time)
 
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Reply #1 - 06/11/12 at 13:20:36

chuck and di   Offline
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Between 2.0 and 3.0 Herman to St Chas. The channel is so narrow that there is little room between buoys for barges.
 

If you find yourself suddenly smack dab in the middle of hell, stopping is not an option.
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Reply #2 - 06/16/12 at 19:08:29

Pvt. J. Potts   Offline
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My partner and I paddled from Kaw Point to Ft. Osage this morning in our Wenonah Escapade.  The current varied from 3.3 to 5.1 but we did have a tail wind except for the last 2 miles which was into a stiff headwind.  Our max speed was 10.2 and the average for the trip was 7.7mph.  It was a great day to be on the Missouri River.
 
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Reply #3 - 06/16/12 at 20:38:46

Scott Reeves   Offline
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Springfield, MO

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Thanks for the updates. This data will definitely help us plan as we look at drift speeds while one is sleeping in the boat. Slower water than the last two years, but that means more refuge from barges, storms and fog.

Keep them coming, I know more boats are on the river as we get closer.

Reeves
 
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Reply #4 - 06/16/12 at 22:20:03

Sam Scupham   Offline
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Kansas City, MO

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Current was 3.5 - 4.5 between Osage and Lexington two weekends ago.
 
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Reply #5 - 06/16/12 at 22:37:36

Scott Mansker   Offline
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These are some pretty sweet numbers.  There are some spots much slower than others where the river gets really wide and sluggish.  Count on 2.5-3.5.  Use 3mph as a good average for long range planning. 

This is why we stress the mantra, "stay in the boat."  Even if all you're doing is paddling enough to keep the bow pointed downstream, you'll likely do 5mph with little effort.  But if you're on shore staring at the river and feeling miserable, you aren't going anywhere.  Stay in the boat and St. Charles will come to you. 

Ground crews, this is for you.  You do your paddler no favor by accommodating their shore time.  Give them what they need, stroke their ego and get them back on the water.  Did you get them that cheeseburger they requested?  Great!  Don't hand it to them until they're back in the boat.  They can eat it and gush about how great it tastes while the drift at 3.5mph.  The longer they stand or heaven forbid, SIT on the boat ramp, the longer it will take them to get back in the boat. 

They will thank you in St. Charles.

Paddlers should eat in the boat.  Drink in the boat.  Rest in the boat.  The only reason to spend extended time on shore is if you're too sleepy to continue safely.  But sore, grouchy, hungry, thirsty, bored, hot, angry, frustrated, dirty... all can be done in the boat moving downstream.
 
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Reply #6 - 06/17/12 at 04:32:09

Dark Horse Paddler   Offline
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Scott Mansker wrote on 06/16/12 at 22:37:36:
Paddlers should eat in the boat.  Drink in the boat.  Rest in the boat.  The only reason to spend extended time on shore is if you're too sleepy to continue safely.  But sore, grouchy, hungry, thirsty, bored, hot, angry, frustrated, dirty... all can be done in the boat moving downstream.


Amen...
 

-Joe Mann, Dark Horse Paddler
www.MidwestPaddleRacing.com
Your #1 Site for Canoe and Kayak Racing In the Midwest!!
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Reply #7 - 06/17/12 at 08:52:11

slebos   Offline
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scott is right..  that is the KEY to finishing the race..  if you plan on winning a class or just want to finish this MUST be done..
 
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Reply #8 - 06/17/12 at 09:19:26

PolishPrince   Offline
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like your thinking scott, especially the part of st charles coming to me...
that will be my mantra thru the race, thanks!
 

"that's the problem with work, too much instability!!!"
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Reply #9 - 06/18/12 at 10:30:01

Ric   Offline
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We paddled yesterday Washington to St. Charles. River speed at the Washington bridge was 4.1 but then it dropped average for the day was around 3. But you have to stay in the channel. You know when you're out of it that paddle gets heavy. No wind. Thanks for paddling with me Tom, Jason and Rob good luck.
 
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Reply #10 - 06/18/12 at 10:39:10

Scott Mansker   Offline
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Ric brings up a good point.  The past two years of flood/high water made success in the race much more accessible.  It was less important to know and understand where the fast water is in a big river.  With more normal conditions this year, the advantage goes to those who understand this or at least learn it after 20 miles. 

Efficiency includes keeping your boat in the fastest water possible balanced carefully with shortest distance. 

Don't "chase" fast water with 90 degree cuts back and forth trying to hunt the channel.  Instead, take gradual arcs and follow the water's natural thalweg.  Proper application of this strategy over the course of miles and hours will yield good results. 

Instead of bemoaning the normal flow this year, see it as an opportunity to showcase your ability to stay in the fast water vs. someone who does not.  The past two years there was little penalty for this.  Now there will be.
 
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Reply #11 - 06/18/12 at 15:09:07

Walt Birmingham   Offline
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Chamois, MO

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Don't know that I've ever followed a "thalweg" unless she was the one leaving the bar in Portland that one time.....?
 

Never let the truth get in the way of a good story. (Mark Twain)       http://greatrivertimes.blogspot.com
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Reply #12 - 06/18/12 at 15:25:53

Scott Mansker   Offline
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We promised we weren't going to talk about that time.
 
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Reply #13 - 06/18/12 at 15:29:43

Walt Birmingham   Offline
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Well, Kathy gave up on proof reading my posts a long long time ago, so I feel pretty safe.

But sorry, I kinda forgot things have changed at your house this year.
 

Never let the truth get in the way of a good story. (Mark Twain)       http://greatrivertimes.blogspot.com
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Reply #14 - 06/18/12 at 15:46:31

Dead Last Johnnie O   Offline
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the turtle's name is Fred
Belton,Mo

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Thalweg ( /ˈtɑːlvɛɡ/;[1] "valley way") in geography and fluvial geomorphology signifies the deepest continuous inline within a valley or watercourse system

I dun lerned me a new word tuhday!
Wink
DL Johnnie
 

You are gonna hurt going slow or fast…so might as well go fast --A.Dog.   Don't stop--West Hanson
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Reply #15 - 06/18/12 at 17:50:08

Scott Mansker   Offline
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Good word to know.  I think the eminent hydrologist Don Wilkison introduced me to the term thalweg.  The eminent beer-ologist Walt Birmingham introduced me to the bar in Portland.  Mostly because it was an October 340 and the Cardinals had a pretty important game on TV...Walt is a fan.

But we weren't shirking our safety boat duties because there was a tandem team there as well eating barbecue with their ground crew. 

As for the girl named Thalweg, I don't remember a whole lot.  She was long and curvy.  Dressed in red and green, I think.  She had a friend named Sandy.  We all had fun until her boyfriend Eddy showed up.  He barged right in.
 
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Reply #16 - 06/18/12 at 19:01:39

Walt Birmingham   Offline
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If anyone is interested, there is a small narrow ramp(looks like a private ramp) on the north bank about a half mile or so down stream of the pump intake building for the Callaway Nuclear plant. The bar is an easy 200 yds uphill directly behind the ramp. Good burgers, cold beverages and close to the thalweg.

Its one of the 340's better kept secret rendezvous. Well, I guess it was until now anyway.
 

Never let the truth get in the way of a good story. (Mark Twain)       http://greatrivertimes.blogspot.com
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Reply #17 - 06/30/12 at 10:40:48

GaryE   Offline
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Around what river mile is the ramp for the good burgers and drinks?
 
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Reply #18 - 06/30/12 at 11:34:27

Scott Mansker   Offline
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Walt knows that stretch best but I believe it's around MM 115.  About 15 miles downstream from the mouth of the Osage River.  River left.  It would be a fun place to meet ground crew between Jeff City, (144) and Hermann (98)

Scott
 
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